Saturday, July 4, 2009

The Western Female Value System

The typical western female's value system is aligned with avoiding responsibility and prioritizing emotion. They are not creatures of their word. They will say something "in the moment" and have a different view later on when their mood is different. They will usually exhibit this behaviour when there are no consequences for it. Obviously, they can't do this at a job since the consequence would be termination of employment, but for situations where the only potential consequence is a disgruntled friend/lover, they will do this and not think twice about it (since it won't directly affect them).

If you follow the chain of events before, during, and after a "flake event" you will see that a woman's actions are heavily skewed towards avoidance of discomfort.

For example, let's consider the following sequence leading up to the planning stages of a date and the subsequent cancellation (flake) that follows:

1. Guy sets up a date with a girl. She accepts (because she doesn't want to say no and deal with potential "hurt" feelings)

2. The day before, or a few hours before the date, she calls to tell the guy that something came up and she can't make it. Result: no date

If you look at this closely you'll see that she managed to get out of the date without having to take a shred of responsibility for it. By accepting the date at the beginning she is avoiding the responsibility of having to explain how she really feels. And by canceling the date later on (using an excuse) she is avoiding the responsibility of going through with something she originally agreed to.

There are many more real-world examples of course. Any guy who has done a serious amount of dating can name a few off the top of his head.

The clinical term for this behaviour is passive-aggressive personality disorder. It's incredibly common among modern women. It's how they go through life avoiding as few bumps and bruises as possible. Of course there's another more urban term for this kind of behaviour, which I will designate as "chickenshit".

I'm afraid I must file you under chickenshit — Kurt Russell, Death Proof

One question to be asked is, how many women are like this? If I had to guess I would say at least 50% of women do this on a regular basis. And the numbers skyrocket for the serial-daters among us, and women who like attention (even from men they aren't interested in).

You don't need to watch the nature channel to see the wild. You can just observe the behaviour patterns of the modern female in the dating arena, one of the most unregulated social mediums there are, lacking in all manners of civility.

A while ago, I wrote a post on Give And Take, the basis of which is equality. But I feel I must add a special escape clause for those instances where a woman shows that she is unwilling or unable to play the "gentleman's" game.

Therefore, I propose the following:

If a woman proves herself to be somewhat fickle, and at the mercy of her whims then it's best to let her do all the pursuing. Give-and-take won't apply with this type of woman since it's a concept based on integrity. So it's best to let her pursue you (suggest get togethers, etc.), and IF you are available & willing then you make the time. Note however, that give-and-take applies by default, when you enter a situation with someone new. It means that, by assumption, you are willing to do your share of the work, since it's a concept based on equality and fairness. But with whimsical, emotionally unregulated women this won't apply. So your best bet is to do LESS than your normal share, in some cases much less. This is a very different philosophy from the commonly held belief that when women don't do "X" you have to do "X" for them. In this case the philosophy is, when women don't do "X", you also don't do "X" - which can be extended to not doing "Y" or "Z" either (if the situation demands extra heavy-handedness).

In other words, play fair until it's time to not play fair.


Dennis said...

Dennis from Chicago. After a recent bout with flakiness and unexplained disappearances, I'm leaning towards not pursuing women AT ALL, just due to the fact they live in the moment with little or no regard for the consequences. When I go out to bars or clubs, I don't even bother asking for phone numbers or suggesting future get-togethers. It's just too much damn work and it's not worth it to me.

Pursuing women is a one-way ticket to frustration and eventual anger. Women of beauty (and even some average-looking women) are hit on ALL THE TIME. Why be the next guy that hits on her? If she asks me for my phone number, I'll give it, but I won't ask and I won't overstay my welcome when I meet them in the venue. I conversate for a few moments and then I'll get out of there. Women come to bars and clubs EXPECTING to be hit on - they feel as though every man in the venue WANTS something from them, so you have to do the exact opposite. For example, how many situations have you been in where a woman was cool and the moment you showed interest in her she immediately becomes disinterested?

I think that prostitution being illegal (at least in the States) exacerbates the dating situation because you have all these thirsty men sweating these women so much, that pursuing them is becoming increasingly obsolete because of their defenses. If a man could spend his money and satisfy his desires as a man without all of the hassle and bullshit that goes along with "dating", then women wouldn't be as defensive as they are as a result of guys aggresively pursuing them.

Guys need to stop and think for a moment. If you were in the spot and you weren't interested in a particular woman's pussy, would you even bother talking to her? Probably not. These so-called "hot" girls need to be treated the same way - not in a negative sense, but just don't show interest in them right away. If the conversation is awkward, then remove yourself from it.

Vittorio said...

I hear you. There's times when give-and-take should be the exception and not the rule. Some places like clubs are, as you mention, home to some of the most flaky women. They might like you at the time, and talk about hooking up etc, but when you follow up there's that risk that their mood shifted. Probably most common with the over-stimulated "follow the shiny thing" types.

And it doesn't help that they have so many options (usually), so even if they let one get away there's lots more where that came from.

Follow up and follow through doesn't apply to these women. No doubt they'd make the worst possible managers.

For me personally I like the idea of give-and-take as a starting point, and then reeling it back in response to some action on her part. They usually tip their hand very early I find. It could be from the first unreturned phone call to the much touted future get-together which never happens. And then that very familiar deja-vu feeling washes over you and you know exactly what kind of woman you're dealing with. So it's time to run "Program B" instead.

The whole "live the moment" value system women have is essentially putting them in a position of forced inequality. How can you plan and do anything with someone who reacts with hostility towards any type of management system. People do have lives after all and living the moment is great as long as you don't break commitments and promises made. I can't imagine a guy friend ever doing this to me with nearly as much impunity as some women do.

With these women it's 100% fuck buddy all the way, because nothing of a more serious nature can survive such a child-like way of thinking. So the way it works is they only call you when they want to "play", which makes sense since they are operating at the level of a child anyway.

Dennis said...

I'd love to get your opinion on this article about pursuing...

Now, I have to admit, that when it comes to pursuing (or not), I allow my ego to come into play. A part of me doesn't want to make a fool of myself.

Then there's one of Brent's famous podcasts about not pursuing...

I don't know if you've ever heard of Paul Janka of New York, but he stated in one of his books...

Let me ask you this question: what happens to the good-looking guy who is
sitting on the train as the hottie nearby is checking him out? What happens when she gets
to her stop and the doors open? Answer: she gets off the train.
Now re-read that last paragraph. This needs to really sink in.
All your props are meaningless unless you initiate and carry a conversation. There
are those women who will come over and introduce themselves, but only if you’re goodlooking
(or visibly rich) and they, themselves, aren’t always prizes. And here’s an irony
for you: though women are verbal and language-oriented they’re surprisingly poor at
driving a conversation. They can really talk, don’t get me wrong. About themselves,
dating, clothes, men, relationships, and high-heels. (Women’s shoes are a subject of
interest to me, believe it or not. That knowledge has helped me out a good many time.)
But, while they’re superbly skilled at answering questions, they lack the ability (in
general) to structure an interesting conversation. I’m sure it goes to the submissive,
follower tendency of the female character. I like that quality.

The reason I'm posting these is because of the polarity of the two. One guy emphasized not pursuing, the other advocates intiating because most women won't initiate themselves. This goes back to what you were saying about women's herd mentality. The problem is that there's a delicate balance between pursuing and not pursuing.

Vittorio said...

Dennis, I'm going to post my reply to your comment in a separate post. It's too big to fit here and exceeds the character limit.