Friday, May 29, 2009

Dealing With Cold and Aloof Women

Men often complain about the coldness and aloofness of women in the city. I know there is a lot of truth to it (having lived in Toronto before), but I can also see some of the women's point of view where they are deliberately cold to avoid getting hit on by guys they don't like. So what I'm going to say will either make total sense in its simplicity, or you'll dismiss as BS. So here goes:

If the person doesn't make it easy for you, move on!

That's it. This one single statement is the solution to the complaints men have about women acting cold and/or being aloof.

If someone does not put in a certain level of energy and enthusiasm into an interaction then it makes no sense for me to continue to invest my own time and energy.

For example, if a woman won't make eye contact with me, I won't bother trying to talk to her.

If a woman does make eye contact and I say hi, and then she says hi, I will say a few words to test the waters. But if her responses are CLIPPED and short and I can tell she is just trying to be polite, I quickly end the conversation and move on. I don't push or persist, even though some would say it's the "manly" thing to do. Uh-uh... that never works. She made up her mind. And it's the same thing with us men. Would you want a girl to persist when you aren't into her? I wouldn't.

Another example, if she smiles at you and you smile back, leave it up to her to initiate conversation. Don't all of a sudden go into pursuing mode and start hitting on her. It's a really simple concept and it's an extension of the above statement: She *has* to do her part. But you might be thinking that she's waiting for me (the guy) to say something. Well, all I can say is that, having taken "the bait" many times in the past, it has to be much better bait than her just smiling and leaving the rest up to me. Remember, she has to make it easy for you! Just like you have to make it easy for her. Think of it as 50/50. Not 80/20 or whatever.

Here are some more examples:

• If a woman turns away from you when you walk near her, don't talk to her.

• If a woman looks at you from across a room don't talk to her, unless she makes some effort to meet you halfway (i.e. by walking closer to you). But don't drag your ass to where she is just because she looked at you.

• If a woman purposely positions herself near you, but won't look you in the eye, don't talk to her. In fact, walk to another area away from her since chances are she is blocking someone who is willing to talk to you.

From here you can probably start to see what I'm talking about. It's basically give and take.

Once you adopt this mindset you stop thinking of things like "I shoulda done this or that", and you also stop second-guessing your actions when you have the mindset that you only need to do your part and nothing more.

You can extend this philosophy to other areas of life but in this post I'm just going to focus on the guy-meets-girl dynamic.

I've had girls hover near me at the Chapters downtown, while I was browsing books. I used to take that as a sign of interest and start a conversation, only to find out that they weren't interested in chatting. And then I'd get angry about it. But there's no point. If she wants to chat she will find a way. Unless she is too shy of course. But nowadays I'm not in the business of compensating for other people's shortcomings. If it's not given to me on a plate I refuse to eat!

Other times women have asked me what time it is. And then I told them the time, and then they would give me a look like "why the fuck would you tell me the time!" LOL. So yeah, they probably wanted to talk to me, but they gave me nothing to work with, plus it's a lame way of trying to get a conversation going. However, saying something like "how's your day going?" works GREAT! It's easy to segue into conversation from there. Remember that, ladies.

Guys, it's not your job to do more than 50% of the work. They make it easy for you or they don't. It's that simple.

Also, if you see women wearing revealing clothing and they smile at you, don't automatically assume they want to get fucked by you. Test the waters (assuming you're attracted) and follow the simple rule, and be prepared to eject at any time if it starts getting to be too much effort to keep the interaction going.

This is a good check and balance system. If enough guys start doing this, women will start internalizing a better belief system where men are concerned. Not the least of which is that they will stop assuming that just because they dress sexy guys will want to fuck them, without them having to do anything else (like being able to carry on a decent conversation). In addition, the bitch shields will start to go down because there's no longer anything to shield against. And women will start doing more of their share of the work for a change.


Ginna said...

You are a smart dude, and I liked the comments. It is very true Toronto must be one of the most difficult places to meet women in North America. Men here are clearly frustrated with women's aloofness, and despite the odds still try too hard to attain women's approval and acceptance. It is one thing to try but to be desperate is quite another, why should women enjoy stone wallin' men and playing this game of charade, do they really think they are superior or on some damn pedestal? I have been to New York city, 5 times in last 25 years, in spite of being much bigger than TO, more changeable, frantic, agressive, fast and more annoymous, women are willing to take a risk and show interest in guys, and it is not always that a guy has to the bidding and slave away for their approval, expectations are varied, there aint a "one size fits all" approach to meeting as TO seems to show and indulge in. From personal experience I can say there is something very dysfuntional about the city and the quality of life here, and women and men dynamics is just one part of it. Toronto is a cold and not vibrant city (you dont feel the energy and ceative spirit of the city), even Montreal could teach Toronto a few interesting lessons!!! All I can say is men here should look elsewhere for nice women, or leave, Toronto, is not the place where you can find them.

Anonymous said...

I'm writing to you from Toronto and until I visited another city and country (I've lived in Toronto all my life) I thought the problem was entirely me. Then when I visited Europe I found out how different women are in other places. They would at least meet me half way --often more than half way. It was an eye opener. I'm back in TO now and I'm wondering if I should move away for good. I do one thing that I did not before though; I stop trying with women here. I give THEM more of the aloof treatment and they notice. It feels good and the looks I get from some of the women is priceless. About 2 in every 10 actually respond and ask ME for a phone number. Of course I never give it to them. Their interest is only based on my being aloof to them, hardly a way to start a relationship. My current girlfriend is an exchange student from Montana. She hates it here and we've talked about escaping to the US or even Europe when our studies are done with.

John said...

Moving away from TO is probably not a bad idea. I moved away from there years ago. I was happy to do so. TO is an epicenter for crappy Canadian women. It tends to get better the farther away you go.

I'm glad you didn't give those validation whores your number when they felt the sting of you not paying attention to them. And you're right, it would be no way to start a relationship, or anything casual for that matter IMO, 'cause trash is trash no matter what you do with it.

Anonymous said...

I have had a lifetime of disappointment in Toronto trying to find a girlfriend. I find that the social network you are born into ie. large families with lots of weddings and social networks makes it easier for guys in this situation. Lots of guys like myself get emersed into their careers thinking that economic success will lead to hooking up with Mrs. Right. Wrong, women nowadays are economically self-sufficient and are looking for emotionally supportive guys who are part of large social networks. Women want it all and if they settle, they will settle for a economic looser who has a large social network. Think about it - unemployed bums have more luck marrying good women than myself in Toronto. That is why I have officially given up.

Anonymous said...

To all the previous comments, you speak the truth!

I HATE it when people talk about Toronto as being a great city where everyone is friendly - it's so damn frigid!

Unless you are born into a large social network, you have very little hope integrating into one - it seems like they're all closed off, which is a shame.

Anonymous said...

I just found out about your blog and you say a lot of the things I've kept in mind. I get a sense of relief from knowing that someone out there understands what many men in T.O. go through and have the courage to post it online. Really appreciate this post and others, please keep this up! And I totally agree with your post, T.O. women are cold. I need to move away from here.

Alexander said...

I, together with all my guy friends (I actually have no female ones as I can hardly stand them and apparently I do not represent any interest to them, in a notable comparison with their iPhone or yoga-class for example) agree at 100% to all the comments above. After spending 7 years in this city and going through many different stages, such as the "there must be something wrong with me" one and the "probably it's because I'm still a student and don't have a serious job yet"-one, I arrived at the conclusion that the problem is in the environment. The women in this city seem to be either total sluts or completely frigid and there seems to be nothing in between these extremes (I have seen a few rare cases but the chance that the normal girl will meet and like exactly YOU is negligible). That's why I have been studying French for a number of years now and hope to move to Quebec after some time. And to all the young, frustrated guys out there, who are still asking themselves if the problem is that they don't have enough confidence and blah-blah-blah, the answer is, NO. There seems to be something in the air of this city that turns women into dull plastic dolls with the same degree of emotionality and compassion as that of frozen pork loin.

passerby said...

Some one once said 'the price of pussy is high in Canada'. I thought that fit it to the T.

Like many of you, I thought I was the problem until I went on vacation away from Canada (different places), and found that women there were not the same way, they were normal, even feminine and approachable...

Bigfoot said...

I've heard Montreal is far better than Toronto in terms of meeting women. I might check Montreal out for a week this summer.

Anonymous said...

The truth is, American and English Canadian women are like this and men like this a lot. If women look warm and friendly, they're seen as sluts. I noticed that North American women don't smile at all because it makes them look slutty, especially in the South. North American men love them stonewalling women so they can try to get them under their control.

Anonymous said...

Chances are, these women might be married or in relationships like most North American women.

Anonymous said...

Women in Montreal are allowed to smile and be slutty because they're French.

Anonymous said...

Yep, similar experience here as well. The thing is now that I am educated and going to make a decent career out of it, I am going to be very picky now and am not concerned about being alone since I have had to suffer many years being lonely that I have overcome it and never pander to women anymore. I have seen many times over women give it up for total aholes over me so I am very certain they don't respect so-called "nice guys" that actually respect women. I am here to make my career work for me and really gave-up on the dating game a while ago despite being in my prime and physically fit and charming. I was fired on false grounds for a false complaint from a female employee when I was 18 and it actually took me a while to realize why, males are not taught to stand-up for their own rights (plus few look out for us, very bad male role models) No surprise that birth rates are so low not to mention job security.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, if any guy actually fallows the advice of this blog post he can count on being sexless and single until he doesn't.

Anonymous said...

@Bigfoot-Women in Montreal are sluts who smile.

Anonymous said...

The odds of a successful cold approach on a girl (who didn't initiate anything) is very very low.,.. unless you're in the top percentile for looks and social skills and she is not. Think of it this way, every girl that catches you looking her way or trying to start a conversation with her will only leave the interaction with a stronger belief in her own attractiveness. Your confidence on the other hand, will only be invalidated by the majority of these interactions. As an experiment, see how you feel after a day of completely ignoring random attractive girls vs the days you don't.

keller said...

it seems to be real tough out there and dating a woman a full time job as people here seem to all share a similar view.

Shawn said...

I agree with everything for the most part.

There are times I am willing to put in a little more effort into the interaction IF I KNOW I WILL NEVER SEE THE WOMAN AGAIN. But even then, it's just over 50% of the effort.

On the other hand, I am outright indifferent to the point of ignoring women in my social circle. I let them initiate or at least show clear signs of interest. I know that I will be seeing them again and there is no rush to the process.

As I have said before men display women choose (although there are exceptions, for example many men refuse fat chicks or many married men refuse affairs). Women engage hypergamy much more than men, learn to leverage this knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Women refuse fat dudes and married women refuse affairs but easily get nagged into them.

Anonymous said...

<<I visited Europe I found out how different women are in other places<<

I assume you aren't including London in this.

In London, women have turned into mutants. They don't fancy women or
men (unless the man is a 'gay friend').

The only people actually getting near to women are men who show money and/or are famous.

Don't go to London for women, you will be very very disappointed.

Anonymous said...

I just came by to say that I loathe Toronto females and I will never visit this place again. What a complete waste of my summer. You'd expect that women with this level of aloofness would at least be hot. But the majority of torontonian women are overweight slobs with bad attitudes. I'm a very good looking guy and I've had many beautiful relationships. Both casual and serious.. I've never felt completely invisible and emasculated until I made the mistake of visiting this man hating shithole of a city. I'm out of here in a couple days and I will never come back.

Anonymous said...

I will give you an example since I am in the engineering program at Humber college, there is only 1 girl in one of courses and one time I decided to say hello and just had a quick chat about the program we were both in college for, I was stunned the girl (white canadian) was very open to talk to me and we had a 10 minute conversation as we were both rushing to different classes so I knew I will see her again later that week back in class, well I decided I was not going to approach her that time and instead I waited for her to at leas say hi to me but, I was wrong, she walked by 2 feet in front of me and she did not even had the courtesy to say "hi how are you" and ever since now 2 months into the semester I see her twice a week and she has never said another word back to me.

What do you think about this?

I try to put myself on her shoes and this is what I think:
* well this guy wants me to talk to him and if I do he would think I want him to fuck me.

*well this guy is not my type so I better cut this off right away.

*well I already have a boyfriend and friends so I don't need to add new guys to my social network.

Now, is it me or do you also think school is the epicenter of networking to your future career of what you have decided to study, this means you communicate with others and brainstorm to get solution to concerns about particular subjects regarding the courses you are taking at the time. More important you want to use the network which will assist you in the future when looking for work.

I have long time ago decided to simply never randomly approached another of this individuals who simply prejudge and think they have everything figured out and required not help from external sources.

John said...

^^^ That's common. One moment they acknowledge you and another moment they pretend you don't exist. There is no excuse for that and it shows that she doesn't even have the ability to be courteous, regardless of whether or not she is interested in you as more than an acquaintance.

Anonymous said...

Its a game of numbers any where. You just need to kill the self ego and go in. If you crash get up and talk to another girl.Then another. I started just approaching all the time and its like throwing shit at the wall.In the end it sticks.

FedUpMan said...

Isn't the problem ultimately this: we men mostly agree on which women are desirable, and there are far fewer of them than there are men who want to be with them. Do you really think these women we consider so cold and rude end up alone? I doubt it. The sad and simple truth is that fate doesn't deal most of us a hand (in terms of social skills, confidence, intelligence, but mostly looks) that will allow us to get these women. It's f*&king depressing, but reality is reality.

Anonymous said...

hahaha...hilarious and true. I laugh when I see commercial to bring tourist to toronto or political puppet wanting more immigrant in toronto. Come to canada the best place on heart and all you find is a s h i t hole city packed with 80 % of immigrants,haha
I lived in toronto few years and dated a brazilian, that was the only thing that kept me there. after few years I got so depressed and left everything to her and left haha. I now live in a community with white people like me and date a canadian with blue eyes just like me and this is how it works

Anonymous said...

Women are cold aloof unfriendly nearly everywhere and not just Toronto. God forgot to give women a heart. American women are among the worst. Cold as ice. Colder than ice. Im a physically ugly mentally ill shy guy who is forever lonely. Women shun me and ignore me. Women are cruel and evil.

Stof said...

Anyone as an opinion of London women Ontario?

Anonymous said...

Quite many Toronto women, a majority of who have college degrees and work in office jobs, are colder than the North Pole.

The situation immediately changes when the male is loaded with money, a filmstar or someone who she can take advantage like co-owing his business, getting promoted at work, social circle.

These "enlightened" Toronto women make all women look bad, thereby the saying one bad apple spoils the bunch. This makes men feel more miserable as I can assure you guys, there are friendly women outside of Toronto.

Don't wait until the feminists force males out of their jobs, because if you don't have a future plan to move now, the feminists will continue to use the government and elite to condemn the male population into servitude.

Harprit said...

I hope all these "aloof" bitches end up alone with 100 cats. Your looks wont last forever sweety. Screw them. F Canada cold standoff ish country. Yeah sure we're polite to each other but that's only a formality there is nothing behind that... no substance.

Anonymous said...

I am visiting from Boston with my gf for indie week and we are both extraverted people, we also travel extensively worldwide.
we both have never met women so distant, cold and just downright disrespectful in the way they interact if forced(shop workers say).
Montreal is nothing like TO they are very friendly there, but for fifty percent of the population of one area to be shutoff is disgusting and awful.
There needs to be a wake up call for these women, they are NOT the most beautiful or smartest or creative women on the planet they are just people, people who are regrettably bitter, self-centered and ignorant .
if you are a local male here i wish you the best of luck personally i would move the F away.
these women are colder than a polar bears nutsack!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Toronto could have been a vibrant liberal global city, but in reality,it is very provincial in character. One can sense and feel that the city is not world class in any aspect, nor is it open minded and progressive. At the core it is pretty conservative actually, which explains why, if you look at social interactions, no one here, women and men alike take a "risk" of getting to know someone new. Shopping lists of endless expectations esp by women is a HUGE turn off for men, which explains again why many men can't be bothered to chase aloof women here. Everything is about $$$$$$$ and entrenched connections, unrealistic expectations and preserving the status quo, which also means Torontonians will ALWAYS ( albeit few liberal minded exceptions) date and marry among their own ethnic group ( look at Chinese or Indians or Blacks, a White Anglo Saxon or Chinese woman, unless she is by default ugly obese,fat or just destitute will NEVER ever date NOR MARRY anyone from those ethnic groups I mentioned, as she would feel she has too much too loose and it would degrade her, that is an unspoken fact about Toronto, if you don't believe it go to New York observe and learn how different it is over there !!). How limited is that ?. Toronto is a multicultural joke at best. Segregation rules over here and every local accepts this as a norm. As an intelligent open minded guy ( who lived in US/ Europe and travels), I see Toronto for what it is and I don't take part in nor accept the pseudo-political correctness and phony charade that most local people ( incl immmigrants) live by and advocate here day in / day out. That is why my next move is to get the hell out this arctic shithole, go to US ( New York, Boston etc) or Europe ( UK/Germany). You can bitch about US all you want, but in my experience whenever I am there it so refreshing. It is easy for me to connect, with women there, even better unlike cold as "ice" Anglo-Canadian types, over there women haven't got their inhibitions about being friendly or making eye contact and starting a conversation with a guy.

Anonymous said...

Canadian women from the big cities like Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, etc are similar to Toronto women: man-haters, stuck up, cold, distant, mean, materialistic, ruin men's lives, harass and stalk guys for fun, self-absorbed, manly, etc.

CanadianAsianDude said...

Don't bother with Toronto women. Women in large cities are more likely to divorce if you get that far. You should meet women from smaller cities or towns.