Tuesday, March 23, 2010

I Can’t Stand Clubs Anymore

This is probably long overdue, but the club environment has become too toxic for me. I cannot go into a club anymore and not leave without a feeling of disgust afterwards. This was never that much of a problem for me in the past, but now it’s like an allergic reaction, which I can’t shake. So what’s the cause you might be asking?

It’s the women!

Quite literally, the women ruin the fucking clubs! It’s their fucking behaviour. The way they act. The way they act around the men. Their nose-in-the-air attitude. Their outright dismissiveness towards any man who wants to get to know them. I just cannot stomach it anymore.

I guess my problem is that I don’t suffer from the ignorance = bliss mindset. I know what the deal is, and it’s been a long time since I saw all this crap behaviour as being something normal. And once you make the realization there’s no going back.

Quite simply, I find it unacceptable to be at a place where attractive women hang out and I am not allowed to talk to them. But of course I can talk to them if I really want to! But the problem is that in their minds I am (by default) a loser or unworthy until proven otherwise. So it’s an uphill battle. Even if you got the looks, that only buys you about 1 minute of “audition time”, and then the walls go right back up. At most you get to hang out with them as “buddies”, if you play your cards perfectly. And I say this even though I’ve had a few one-night stands back in the day. But those were in some ways anomalies only, and with women who were somewhat less attractive than me. So I don’t think I’m wrong in saying that it seems to have gotten even harder since then. Since even the women with less than stellar looks carry this attitude nowadays that they deserve someone so much more than what they are themselves. It’s a total fucking bubble.

I certainly can’t be in a place where even the fat chicks look down on me. And I certainly can’t be in a place where even if a girl does want me, she is promptly whisked away by her police-state girlfriends.

I also can’t stand being in a place where I see guys reaching out trying to strike up a conversation with the women and getting blown off.

These women; they get dressed up, look pretty, and when a guy wants to get close to them, they reject him. That’s pretty fucked up! So why do women get dressed up at all you might be wondering? Well, the reason is this: It’s because, in a club setting, women can get away with bringing attention to themselves, but at the same time not take responsibility for it. You see, the attention whore relies heavily on club dynamics, which puts a fence around her with a sign that says, "Look but don't touch”. And this is only made possible by having police-state girlfriends come along which enforce the hands-off policy.

Not too different from strip clubs, really. You pay but no play.

Well, sorry. But this situation just sucks major donkey dick. So no thanks! The truth is that I do want to touch, and in some cases fuck! And if I can’t do that, despite having the bait dangled in front of me, then I am a FOOL for sticking around. Only a FOOL would go to a candy store over and over again and not be allowed to taste anything sweet.

I see the various looks from women. It’s nothing but socially engineered hate and disdain towards men. It’s probably not that different from how a woman looks at a man after a semester of taking Women’s Studies. In a club, these negative views are perhaps amplified, given that there are so many men in one place. The concentrated “creep factor” unavoidably means that the shields simply must go up.

It's 100% pure defense mode. And they almost never take initiative themselves. But oddly enough, out of the handful of times I have ever been approached by women at a club, it was usually to tell me to smile more (on those occasions where I just could not hide the sucky time I was having). But all the countless other times I was smiling and giving out a positive vibe, no woman had ever come up to me (with very, very few exceptions). Apparently, I'm much easier to approach when I frown than when I smile. This seems to suggest that it's much easier for women to approach a man with the intent of pointing out his flaws than with the intent of complimenting him, or even (gasp) getting to know him. Ironic to say the least.

Another big irony is how so many women will dismiss a guy in a bar/club environment JUST BECAUSE he is part of that environment. Well to these women (bitches) I say this: If by association the guys in a certain environment are bad, and you are ALSO in that environment, what does that make you? I mean, aren’t you also part of that environment and as a result ALSO a piece of shit? Oh the hypocrisy.

I should mention that my own personal decision to avoid clubs is not just my reaction to the women in that environment. It is my reaction to how they BEHAVE in that environment. That is the difference. I am basing my views on direct and highly reproducible experience. The women however are basing their views on opinion, rumor, and socially downloaded anti-male propaganda. The difference between them and me is that I work in the lab and make my conclusions from that, while they just read the tabloids.

All you have to do is open your fucking eyes! You don’t need a PhD to figure this shit out. It’s all around you, and I guess that’s the problem. It’s too out in the open, and people often have a hard time seeing what’s directly in front of their noses.

It seems to me that a sort of boiling point is being reached with regards to Western females. Already I have noticed a definite decline in the amount of men actively approaching women in clubs over the years. I pretty much never see aggressive approaches anymore. The most I see is tentative approaches. The boldest approaches I saw recently were the ones I personally took part in a few months ago. I was winging with two guys at the club. We were hardcore, but despite being some of the most charismatic, outgoing guys there we were met with wall after wall. At most we got polite conversations (in traditional Canadian style). But that was it.

There’s still a kind of sliver of hope among many club-going men that they will connect with someone. But that too is on its way out. Unfortunately, this will help enforce the stereotype that men are too intimidated to approach. Funny how that works.

The typical woman’s mindset that men are up against is basically this:

You’re not good enough for me and I don’t need you.

This toxic mindset can only be dealt a deathblow by starvation. In other words, stop feeding the monster and the monster will starve. It will do no good to simply protest if many men are still:

• Giving attention to women who don’t give anything in return.

• Getting into “mutually beneficial relationships” with gold diggers.

• Trying to get into “mutually beneficial relationships” with gold diggers who only take the money and run.

• Supporting establishments that thrive on the simultaneous patronage and belittlement of men (e.g. strip bars and ladies nights).

• Marrying women knowing they’ll get ass-raped in case of divorce.

The list goes on.


So, you starve the monster and everything tied to the monster will also die out, such as the PUA industry, which serves to legitimize the monster.

It’s inevitable that it will happen. Esther Vilar was wrong. This is definitely a bad dream we can wake up from.

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well I agree. I'm in UK and noticed this as an 18 year old in 1980. After living in London 25 years, I'm still single and no chance of finding anyone here. I did go to South America a few times and had the time of my life. I'm now going back there to live in the near future. women actually like men there.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your blog. You are quite right about the clubs. If more men would wake up the problems could be more easily solved --but there are still too many boys --men --who chase women like dogs chase flies.

Dennis said...

Dennis from Chicago...

The solution, in my opinion, is to not try to pick up women in bars and clubs, period. You go there, you dance, drink, have a good time, socialize with the women, and nothing more. Don't ask for phone numbers and don't try to pick up unless it's readily apparent that the girl is into you. Reserve your pursuing to venues like grocery stores, gas stations, bookstores, hell ANYWHERE. Women are EVERYWHERE guys! Why aren't you approaching them? It's alarming how many men reserve their pickup spots to clubs and bars only. You're shooting yourselves in the foot, guys! It's ridiculously easy to pick up women on the street. First of all, they are by themselves, so they are vulnerable and less likely to blow you off abruptly because their friends aren't there. Secondly, you're seeing her in her natural state as opposed to being all dolled-up in a club. In a club, you're witnessing her at her best. At the store, you're witnessing her as she is every day, so you're getting a better idea of what she'll be like should anything develop between the two of you. Engage her for a few minutes only, get her number, and leave. Hook up with her later.

At the same time, I blame some of the guys as well. Women like to see men move their bodies, men that know how to have a good time, men that can dress well. In the club, women are very aware of their surroundings and are watching you from afar, even if you think they aren't. If you're just standing up in the club with a drink in your hand, not dancing, not speaking to anyone, not showing any LEADERSHIP, why would the women give you a shot? If you're not distinguishing yourself in some way, then guess what, you'll be seen as just like any other guy. I've seen and experienced it time and time again whenever I go out. Guys just stand around, not looking their best, not DANCING, and definitely not approach without an agenda. In places like clubs, bars, and lounges, your agenda is transparent to the women.

Take the clubs for what they are - they are NOT among the best places to meet women. As long as you enter these venues with that in mind, you'll save yourself much aggravation.

John said...

I have to disagree with some of your comment, it's not automatically easy to pick up women on the street. Been there, done that, and it has an even lower success ratio than clubs. The problem is not with men as a whole, but with women as a whole. There's a difference between giving up and quitting what isn't working. And where I am, picking up on the street, grocery stores, book stores, etc just does not work. Ask yourself, how can so many men be so clueless? Sure a guy can approach like Paul Janka and get laid but where is the fun in it if it has to be like a full time job?

Clubs serve their purpose, and yes a lot of guys stand around and do nothing, but there's a good reason for that, it is because many of them instinctively know what they are up against. Of course, it helps a lot if you have seen this for yourself first hand, as it really helps distinguish between what meshes with your experiences and what doesn't.

I said it before, travel is the only real solution, and that is because it is not the same everywhere.

It is indeed a waste of life trying to adapt to a broken system.

Yes, women are everywhere, but they have this nasty habit here of acting like pack animals, so even though they are individuals deep down, when it comes to the public sphere they seem like robots.

I like the sentiment that you should be proactive, but not at the level of insanity, which is, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I agree, don't chase or pursue women, but also don't wait for them to throw a bone your way. Take your "business" elesewhere if the fish aren't biting. One idea is to take part in volunteer work, where you meet people who aren't destination-oriented; meaning, they are there more or less for altruistic reasons. And what person would be doing volunteer work who wouldn't be open to meeting people? However, if they are at a store or whatever, they are there just to "pick up X, so leave me alone dammit!"

I used to give women more credit for their actions but as I gained wisdom I realized that credit was mis-placed. Very few desirable women in this part of the world are at a reasonably functioning level to engage in a mature relationship. They generally carry prejudices and all sorts of negative stereotypes in their heads, which has nothing to do with them being more aware or anything like that. Moreover, we often try to categorize these shortcomings in a positive light, which is flat-out wrong. I make this point in strong terms in my other post: http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/2010/02/pua-scam.html

Dennis said...

I haven't been to Toronto since 2002 (I've been there 4 times), and I'm visiting again later this summer at the end of July. I've
actively been in the game since 2006, and when I come up there, I want to see for myself what Toronto men have been griping about for all these years since. When I was up there in 2001 and 2002, women seemed receptive to me, and I didn't know jack shit compared to what I know today. Back in 2002, me and my best friend plucked these 2 girls out of a mall on Younge Street...

http://www.46defense.com/misc/Rhia.jpg

http://www.46defense.com/misc/Rhia2.jpg

...with no difficulty at all. I know that this is a one-time occurrence, but I cannot believe that most Toronto women are this stuffy. I can't wait to get up there.

I would like to hook up with one or more of you guys to see exactly what the heck is going on, because frankly I'm a bit skeptical. An international city like Toronto rife with stuck-up bitches? I don't know, man. I agree that you should take your game on the road every once in a while. I'm still very eager to visit Europe and see how the women are over there.


I'm not saying that it's automatically easy to meet women in places other than clubs, it's just easier to me from my experience. Using Paul Janka as an example in my case is unfair. Janka does it professionally.
He basically goes out of his way to meet women. I don't do that. I take my shots wherever
available. If I happen to be in the store and I see an attractive woman that suits my fancy, I'm approaching her. I don't really care for the outcome. I'm simply proud that I took a swing. You have to take swings, all the time.
Janka's volume is too exhausting, and while you may reap the benefits of a better social life and more sex, it shouldn't be at the expense of living LIFE. I won't go out of my way to meet women nor will I go somewhere strictly to meet women.

John said...

It's easy to be fooled into thinking Toronto chicks are great and receptive. But that's just surface politeness. You have to go deeper than that to see the problems. Getting to (or trying to) the physical level is the true test. Anything less is just a sterile interaction.

Were those girls you met foreigners? I had some success with girls that were not Toronto raised (A brazilian girl comes to mind, and so does a russian girl or two).

When I was living in Toronto it was actually much easier to meet women from the internet than either the clubs (the second best place) or the street (the worst place). And I think that's a testament to how twisted things are in the city, if the internet becomes a viable option over real-life introductions. But I didn't make the rules, it just worked out that way. And it was a much easier way to get your foot in the door. But it was hardly smooth sailing after that though. Just an easy way to get lots of dates that seldom went anywhere.

It's good that you want to see things for yourself in Toronto. I personally want to see Europe for myself. I've already concluded that things are f*cked up here and surrounding area. Now I want to go where it isn't.

Anonymous said...

Dennis from Chicago. So what's up, man? You disappeared?

John said...

Hi Dennis, I'm still around :)

I haven't had much inspiration to write more. But I've been reading a fair bit on what's happening in PUA land. It seems a growing number of guys are rebelling against it. A few are even linking to some of the stuff I wrote.

As for the topic of this post (clubs) I'm sticking to my guns and avoiding clubs unless I really feel the urge to go somewhere with booze and loud music. Consequently, I'm doing more daytime approaches, not a shotgun approach, but only those opportunities that are real easy and where I don't have to work hard (which ironically, increases my chances anyway). And from here it's only a numbers game. Plus the warm weather helps as it gives me a good reason to leave the house.

So what's going on with you?

Anonymous said...

I’m still playing the field. I’ve finally reached the point emotionally that night game is a colossal waste of time and money if you’re looking to meet someone. Unless you’re involved in a situation where the woman is obviously attracted to you, you’re basically spinning your wheels trying to get at these women. There’s just too much working against you in this type of environment. I prefer to keep my money in my pocket and just work day game during the week. It’s so much easier. My favorite places are coffee shops, bookstore, and grocery stores.

What’s ironic is that when I approach a woman during day game and she declines, the rejection doesn’t bother me at all. However, when a woman declines me at a bar, lounge, or club, it really bugs me. I’m affected emotionally by it and it screws up my mojo. It’s been like this ever since I started going out to clubs about 10 years ago. Even today with vast experience and knowledge of the game, I still feel a twinge of bitterness and resentment when women in night game environments don’t cooperate. It’s poisonous, and at the end of the night I’m out $30 to $50 and nothing to show for it (not that I buy women drinks, because I don’t). Also, you can forget about me paying cover just to be in the company of women (while they get in free). It’s a stupid game and I’m tired of playing it.

I’m still an adherent to Paul Janka’s method (direct approaching) when it comes to day game, but I do some of Cory Skyy (eye game) and Brent (non-pursuing) as well whenever I do go out to bar and lounges. I mix them in given the circumstance and venue.

John said...

I can relate a lot to what you say about clubs. I used to be all about clubs back in the day, especially when I was starting out. The advantage back then for me was that there are a lot of women in one place so you can do a lot of work in a short period of time. And at the time, day game was bad for my state since I would be waiting around a lot for opportunities, and that made me more self-conscious. So clubs was just a better option for overcoming shyness quickly. I could immerse myself in "approach madness" so to speak.

However, clubs have now become kind of toxic for me, in part because of the high-energy game that's required to break through to any degree; which is not my cup of tea at all (anymore). But also in part because what you end up getting is of inferior quality anyway (usually).

And besides, now I'm just a lot more aware of what's going on. I'll see the dismissive looks and phony sense of empowerment these women have and it's a total turn off. The idea of having to win over a "set" makes me cringe, especially since they are on a hair trigger and ready to walk out on you at any time. So you have to play things so perfectly trying to fight against their inherent bias/prejudice towards you. And even if you persevere and overcome, guess what, you got a lemon anyway. The sticker price is way too high on these bitches lol.

Even saying hello is enough to get you blown out in these environments. That's what I find truly amazing. Plus, as you say, they get in for free (ladies night) while the men pay. Add to that the money you pay for alcohol, cab ride, time to get ready etc. And then stuff like this happens. You eventually reach a point where enough is enough.

As I posted before, I had very little success in day game in the past. But now, since clubs are out for me, day game is the only alternative. And now (hopefully), due to the law of necessity I will find ways to succeed where I didn't before. And I'm patient now, which is a big difference from when I was starting out -- when I was overcoming approach anxiety and trying to be patient would have a negative effect. But now, the waiting game doesn't bother me. I could hang out at the store, mall, do my own thing, maybe buy something I need, and then strike up a conversation with someone who is nearby. And if they don't respond well, or as positively as I would like, I move on. That's the key here. You have to remove all the uphill struggles one might be inclined to associate with success (no pain no gain type of nonsense). The way I see it, I'm the one who broke the ice, I'm the one who made it easy for her to engage me if she wanted to. What more do I need to do?

The other thing is that I only talk to women who are by themselves. If they are with friends, I see that as a situation similar to a club, where there is a cockblock waiting to happen. This way I don't have to deal with what her friend thinks of me, only what she thinks of me.

So basically, I make it as easy as possible for myself.

I'm still using the internet to meet women. But I never message the women. They have to message me. I have a firm belief that if I message them they are inclined to look for reasons that I don't measure up just like every other guy that messaged them. But if they message me first they are inclined to look for reasons where they were right in "picking me". It's this subjective logic women use that makes the internet way too much fucking work, unless you let them message you first that is.

(continued in next post)

John said...

I will admit, I do find Paul Janka's style interesting, and in some ways superior to all the regular PUA crap. At least he acknowledges that it's a numbers game. But he is also trying to sell his method nonetheless so some things he says are just over-complications in order to create the filler in order to create the illusion of substance. Because, if he just said to approach a lot of women and keep the interactions short before inviting them to your place to fuck, that wouldn't be enough content to sell something.

This sales copy was taken right from his Attraction Formula website, on the main page:

In this short video, you'll learn the common mistakes that hold most men back from having real success with women. You'll also learn a proven formula to easily meet women anywhere you go. These tips and tricks are being used by thousands of men all over the world. Make sure to watch the entire video, so you can learn how to quickly meet the right woman for you...

My approach allows you to meet women in under 2 minutes, without the use of online dating, so you can meet girls during your normal daily routine. It's designed to be quick, so that you can meet women anytime, anywhere you go...

I receive dozens of testimonials every single day. I have hundreds of them on file from guys who swear my insights have changed their life. (I've posted several of them on this site). My street worthy dating advice works for all kinds of guys, and it can work for you too!

I've approached over 10,000 women and have collected over 3,000 phone numbers. I know exactly what works when it comes to meeting women. I've thrown out everything that doesn't work—and I've narrowed my approach down to a few critical things you must do in order to get the girl. It's absolutely step-by-step and none of it is theoretical...

These secrets have worked for thousands of guys all over the world, and they can work for you, if you're willing to simply try them out. I'm not going to sit here and promise that you'll be dating a super-model overnight, but I can promise that if you just try a few of my tips and tricks, amazing things will happen. Watch the video above to learn how it's done!



In my mind, the fourth paragraph says all you need to know. He approached 10,000 women, and collected 3,000 phone numbers. In his book he says that 10% of the women he gets numbers from he ends up fucking. That means he's fucked around 300 women. Now, 300/10000 = 0.03. This means he fucks around 3% of the women he approaches. But in the rest of his sales copy he states that he has "secrets" and "critical things" that you must do to be as successful as him. Well, I can tell you that with a 3% success rate (give or take) it all comes down to the law of statistics, and there is no such thing as a magic formula. I suspect other guys like Mystery have about the same success ratio. But good luck getting them to admit that directly. For them it's all about making it seem like they have amazing skillz and charging lots of $$ for it!

But I will give Janka a thumbs up for being honest about his actual numbers. However, I think he's peddling the PUA angle too much (which no doubt is making him more money than he would otherwise).

Anonymous said...

I'll be in Toronto the last week of July and I'm going hit up a lot of these spots and check the vibe of these Toronto women. I'm not expecting much (after all, women are women), but I'm curious to find out. I'll be there for about 3 days and I'm going to do day game and night game and report my results.

This past weekend I didn't go out for the first time in months. It was a bit refreshing.

Going back to your comment about PUA marketing, I still receive newsletters from various "gurus" out there and their marketing "catch phrases" are getting a bit annoying...

"How To Automatically spark attraction in ANY woman"

"The one thing that most guys MISS when dealing with women"

"Why other guys are getting laid and you're missing out!"

"Pick up any woman in a minute or less!


These guys are really cashing in, because the pickup industry is not regulated, at all.

Anyhow, what's your e-mail? I want collaborate with you on what spots to hit up in Toronto. I'm putting together an itinerary.

dennis@46defense.com

Seba said...

Hi John, for me its seems that you have come back to the pursuing mode, you are caring too much about women or if not, there`s resentment towards them.

I remember one of your first posts about "how to be happy with or without women". That`s one of my favourites. In that post there`s everything one needs to know or understand: you just relax, let life take its course and let the women came to you. Back there you really got it, but now you are thinking again how to get chicks, what to do or not to do.

Here`s one of your coments: "I’m still playing the field. I’ve finally reached the point emotionally that night game is a colossal waste of time and money if you’re looking to meet someone"

Forget about meeting someone, be men o women, forget about getting good or bad responses, and most important let the attachment go. You have progressed a lot since you started out, with a hungry mind wanting to get action, wanting to get sex, women, etc. Now you seem a lot more mature, the desire is less strong but is still there.

How to let the desire go? You just let it go, you just say: Whatever has to happen, its gonna happen, i will not complain, but accept.
I know it can be scary, the mind will say: but, what if i`m not getting any pussy, what if this or that happens. And curiously, when you let go and totally relax, withot giving a fuck about a thing (cause you konw anything that happens, either you fuck twenty young models at once or you come alone home and masturbate, you will be okay with it, you just accept) people will notice and will respond good.

But if you secretly think that by doing this you`ll get better reactions, you won`t. It has to be a total let go: It has a lot about Brent`s attitude, just relaxing and flow with life, enjoying yourself in the process.

It`s a slow process: at first mind will seek for results, but slowly when you relax and start enjoying yourself, you will feel much better and relaxed with whatever life brings to you. And then, when you are relaxed, you will know exactly what to do or not to do, what to say or not to say, and forget about all those stupid rules about pursuing and that sh*t, because you are coming from a total different place.

I hope you understand what im trying to explain. Let me know if you like the post

Sorry if there are any mistakes in the spelling cause english is not my native language. If you liked what i`ve written, here is a web i highly recommend to anyone:
"www.kiranji.com" It`s not about pick up, but life in general.

John said...

Hi Seba, you raise a good point. And I see how it might appear that I've returned to pursuing mode, but that's not really the case. I do much less work than I used to when it comes to meeting women, and I certainly am able to be happy without women in my life (I did it for two full years). However, I do not wish to deny reality or certain impulses just to be happy. That's just a personal choice for me.

There's certainly room for different ways of thinking. The Brent way of thinking about women is very useful, where you are unattached to the outcome and just go out and have fun. But I also know that it's perfectly reasonable to want to connect with people, and when that doesn't happen, due to the reasons I've given, then some anger is normal. For instance, there are problems in this world which cannot be solved by taking a passive "be happy" approach, and becoming detached like a monk would. So this means I have to be willing to get my hands dirty even if it means dealing with some negative feelings that might come up.

The detachment-to-outcome mindset is certainly useful and it's become a big part of who I am. It's very useful for managing feelings of neediness when they arise. But I feel it should be taken as part of an overall neediness management strategy (perhaps a key part), but not as an absolute way to behave, because then you risk closing your mind to genuine feelings which might arise from genuine circumstances which might need some corrective action.

The way I look at it, by letting room in my life for feelings I am experiencing life more fully, but at the same time I don't want those feelings to take over, which is why you need "detachment training" so you know when to move on.

What I'm saying doesn't change the significance of that post "How to be happy with or without women". It still applies, but it should not be taken as absolute for every circumstance, which I'm sure you understand. It would be nice to cover everything in one post, and include all the situations on when/where it should be used but that's pretty much impossible. But all my posts put together give a good idea of the overall mindset I encourage guys to have.

Seba said...

I think i get your point. I understand when you say you want to connect with people:
"But I also know that it's perfectly reasonable to want to connect with people, and when that doesn't happen, due to the reasons I've given, then some anger is normal".

Anger comes from desire: when reality does not match our wishes. So there`s neediness inside you to connect, meet someone nice, and because it doesn`t happen, anger comes.
I think you need to let it go. By this im not saying that you sit in your house like a monk and do nothing, but you develop an attitude that whatever has to happen, its gonna happen. Then, when you feel like going out, you go out, when you feel like doing nothing, you stay at home.

And then, when you do go out and really dont give a fuck about connecting or meeting someone, theres no crap that can affect you. When some chick gives you that dismissive look, or does not respond, you just laugh and continue your way.

Its pretty scary the mindset of total detachment, because you are not more in control, you just let go. But is the only way to go. And it doesnt "prevent" real connections, besides it enforces them. Your whole energy changes.
There`s no need to do like brent says like not calling women ever, or stuff like that. Like the saying goes, rules are for blind people.
When you get the "detachment" attitude in your whole being, when you develop trust in the way life wants thigns to happen, then you can do anything!! You can call a girl twenty times or not call her at all, you can invite her to dinner o directly to your place. But the actions in themselves will come from a total different point, there is no desire behind them, just the action in itself.

I am not defending women, i know they act like bitches and have some crude attitudes towards guys and strangers in general, and i know that society gives them more status than they deserve, but thats reality now and you`ve got to accept it.

You are shooting yourself in the foot by not going out to clubs anymore. Its a nice place to go with your friends, dance and have a good time!! You can even laugh at those women who can only think about how "hot" they are, or those stupid guys buying them sh*t.
If you meet someone its a bonus, but the whole attitude should be towards enjoying the moment, have a good time with your friends and thats all what life is about, enjoying the moment, flowing with it.

Thakns for your response

John said...

Anger does not always come from desire. For example, if I see a fat woman act dismissive towards a guy that is more attractive than her, that can make me a bit angry. I'm not angry because I desire her, I'm angry because of her action.

And it's not that I automatically get angry when I don't connect. I'm angry at the overwhelming skew that exists in the favor of women and against men. I suppose I could pretend it's not there and just have a carefree attitude but I choose to face the facts, lumps and all. The only realistic way the male-female dynamic in this society can ever be returned to a normal healthy level is if people start calling a spade a spade.

Detachment is a great thing but it's not all powerful. But it can sure seem that way by way of contrast, especially if you are normally the needy worrying type, and then make the switch. Then it's very liberating. But like I said, it's (for me anyway) a management strategy. And you should know what it's good for and what it isn't good for. It's good for putting your best foot forward when meeting people, but not always good for confronting issues or problems. Only wisdom can teach you the finer details of this.

Hey, I know that clubs can be fun, especially when with the right crowd. But I really do have to limit how often I go to them for the reasons I have given. They really don't have benefit for me anymore. Partly because I've gone to them so much in the past, but mostly because of how the women act in them (at least the clubs I go to). I really don't see why I should make a serious effort to enjoy something that is not really my cup of tea. Would you take up a hobby you don't enjoy? Now, if I was vacationing in say Mexico then I would go to the clubs and the women there would likely be better than here, plus it would be a new environment which adds to the excitement. But where I am right now clubs suck for the reasons I've stated.

Yes, I know what you're saying about going to places not to meet people, and then letting whatever happens happens. I did it many times and it certainly helps, especially for your own inner state of mind. You can certainly get better reactions from people when you are outcome independent. But when I see so many arrogant, bitchy women it does bother me, regardless of weather I desire them or not. I see no reason to put up with it, the same way I wouldn't put up with a bad movie on TV. I would just turn it off or change channel. In fact, the reason I choose to limit my exposure to clubs is *because* I want to avoid unnecessary negative feelings. Sometimes the only way to do this is to eliminate the source of them.

Seba said...

Well, I hope things get better there in toronto with those bithces haha. I really cant releate much to your reality cause i`m form south america, and(from what i`ve heard) people here are nicer and warmer here than there (in the develooped countries and big cities).

From what i`ve seen and lived, people with status in general and more particulary women, tend to forget that deep down we are all the same, and beheave as "superiors" or look differnt to "normal" people.
I know that sucks sometimes, but it helps to apart materialistic people from heart-centerd people.

I personally enjoy more being with normal not-so-cool guys and women, who can be relaxed, cause their egos are generally small. However, there are alwalys going to be people with big egos and I (personally) think there`s nothing to do about them. Just letting them play their stupid games while i enjoy my life.

You can try to meet more heart-centered people by going to some charity, relating to low-to-mid status people in genereal. Generaly, those ones who work on charities or volunteer-jobs are nice people to meet.

I hope you enjoyed the opinions

PD: I highly recomend brazil in february, the carnival parties. There`s pretty crazy stuff, nice and warm women and people in general

Javier said...

I agree completely that clubs are the worst place to meet woman. I used to think that clubs were excelent to have fun, have a drink and meet woman, but after a time I saw that woman in these places are really intolerant and seek to rise her ego.

I have learned that it is more important to appreciate yourself rather than trying to do imposible things. The most beautiful woman you can meet walk on streets, go to language courses and have an intelectual background.

A recomendation: Learn a lot of intellectual things because woman are really atracted to an educated person, do so excercise, learn to cook and try new things because your chances to meet woman will rise, and be a nice guy because woman apreciates solidarity, compasion, caring because that makes us human. It is necesary to hear them, make them laugh and be nice with them, but keep in mind that you have to appreciate yourself.

Forget everything of the PUAs. Somethings are good like learn PNL, learn new things, but woman appreciates a man who appreciates them. Just read some psicology books to understand our human nature. Evolutionary psicology is important, but our social context and evolution explain many important things. Just get the series the genius of Charles Darwin of Richard Dawkins to understand why nice guys finish first.

zak said...

Nice guys dont finish first. they havent finised first for a while. everyone here (me too) seem like the nice guy type. And we are all annoyed. Maybe back in the day they did i am not sure. but in this age we aint getting sh!T. I lived in Toronto and now Ottawa and iv witnesses exact same vibe. I really hope that women in other countries are normal because I know its not going to change here anytime soon. I dont think its just Toronto I think its north american women. You really cant reason with them, even if they understand they still dont change the way they feel or act. I think its the media thats been messing them up over the years and now they seem to all live in bubbles where reasoning and logic are insignificant. I believe the problem is more than just bad attitude at clubs. I say this cuz i met some rare girls who are really cool and fun to be with and have respect even at clubs but once it comes to men, all of the sudden nothing makes any sense. Anyway I am glade I am not the only one going through this. I dont think its acceptable at all. Since when was getting disrespected acceptable when you did nothing wrong. I will keep trying here because well giving up isn't really possible not yet at least but my hopes are on finding someone not from here which is kind of difficult when your stuck here. keep your heads up guys

Javier said...

@Zak.

I completely agree with you. The media has changed the way women act. I agree completely that woman have rights and they are free to do what they want. However, the media have created an hostile enviroment to intelectuals, artists and other important people. For example, a classic icon of the movies for me is Casablanca, nowadays bad movies with a lot of sex and naked woman are appreciated.

In the past intelligence was an important quality. Now, the media has denigrated the most important quality of our specie.I think we have to seek women who are as sexy as smart.

Anonymous said...

the media is influenced by the same elites who destroyed our manufacturing based economy from within,which wiped out the very foundation of the hard working productivity rewarded WASP male-the guys who within only a few generations moved the west from donkey carts to spacecraft and explored the atom.we are saddled with guilt trips for injustices that every other civilization also committed while we did far more to improve the lives of society's lowest rungs.
just look at the media shat that demeans us and denies us what our fore fathers worked so hard to bequeth us.
the elites are rigging the game so the western male will never again rise to the heights he alone acheived as a middle class creator